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Post by Southpaw Hare on Nov 17, 2016 2:31:43 GMT 1
Patch Notes:
Removed Assassin's ability to prevent opponent from Gathering Power when they are Off-Balance.
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Post by captain on Nov 21, 2016 9:43:10 GMT 1
My psuedo guide on my Current evaluation of the game. I don't have enough games to truely write a guide but this is my attempt to post my current understanding of the game.
All values are measured in "damage units" that is the total amount of damage I think a given resource is worth in sellsword dittos, (mostly applicable to all matchups)
Token=2.25 damage (Reds, 10s worth 2.3 damage (red 10 worth 2.5 damage), Tricolors worth 3.4 damage (possibly more) others worth 2 damage)
Counter(stone)= 4 damage
Forcing someone off balence=0.2 damage
Followupattack= 1 damage
example : Parry value=6(damage)+1(heal)+3.5(discard)+0.2(OB)-4(counter cost)=6.7 damage vs standard strike, but gives 10.7 value vs lightning strike!
Lightning strike gives only 5 points of net value vs Standard strike but gives 17! vs lightning strike.
There is one final interaction I actually need to discuss, and that is Standard strike vs Guard. The average value of a standard strike is around 13.5, and a Guard 4.5 value+healing, if you go with simple assumptions, you can see that a SS deals around 7.5 damage to a person who is guarding.
BUT this rests on something that isn't true, and that is that somebody will be guarding without tricolors. The truth is that tricolor guarding is WAY more powerful than guarding without one. Above I gave tricolors 3.4 value! This is due to this interaction. In reality somebody will guarding with a tricolor block almost 100% of the time. Making Standard strike effectively LOSE vs guard. (and giving guard 5.5 value in the process)
As a result of the very high value of counters, I am pretty leery to use counter costing attacks like lightning strike, LS doesn't beat anything of value other than piercing strike, standard strike, and Power up but LS loses to guards, Parry's, and Counter attacks. The counter cost of a move makes it such that using that move is a dangerous proposition unless it has high upside value. When you standard strike somebody's Counterattack, the damage isn't awful, but lightning striking the same counterattack can be a disaster.
Now that I have my initial numbers out of the way, let's talk about individual tokens, and things I try to do with them
All tricolors: Guard fodder, You really need to guard with these, guarding lets you cycle to find the good cards to standard strike/Piercing strike with, as well as find your pairs to build up counters. Guarding with not tricolors is way worse because they lose to a powerful, low risk move, standard strike. Later in the game you can use these as your red cards, once the opponent is below a certain damage threshold
Blues: In general high blues>>> low blues, no blue really wants to be used as a low, and counterattack is the primary blue that is played. However for parry it's nice to use your low blues, as your 3 high blues (8/9/10) are mostly going to be reserved for counterattacks
10 : always counterattack, it's far and away the best one, and counterattack is solid when you don't have a tricolor guard available. 9 : This is my one blue standard strike, it has uses also as a counterattack, but if you lack a tricolor guard it's a very reasonable substitute. 8: Used almost exclusively to counterattack. But also is quite good in followupattacks! Below 8: Parry/Followup attack/Gather power for the most part Parry tends to be a good way to dig yourself out of a bad blue hand, since you can neutralize enemy good cards and leave them open.
Reds: Reds are far and away the most useful cards in the game, you will probably not have enough reds to go around. +2 damage is huge! Only 30% of the deck is reds, but you probably want to play more than that in terms of strikes. This makes it such that you need to find places to diversify your striking to. In this case the 2 main areas are high yellows and blue 9s. Effectively giving out 8 extra "psuedo reds" to play with.
10/9/8 Standard strike/dashing strike fodder, Standard strike needs lots of fodder to deal damage to the main anti defense options of piercing strike and power up. Dashing strike is also good at this sort of task. Though I would rarely dashing strike except with red 10, red 10 is a solid dashing strike to deal 18 damage with on net. though only 10 value points of damage 7 and below, Piercing strike and lightning strike: These ones don't care about card number and the red is really important for both of these. Piercing strike is used way more often than LS because of how important guard breaking is.
Yellows
9/10, Standard strike fodder, You need to branch out your standard strike because there aren't enough reds. Doing so also gives the fringe benefit of balencing your strike range vs guard.
8: I really have little idea what to do with 8, I generally use it in follow up attacks, which it does quite admirably at. there are only 2 in the deck, and followups are common enough that you probably can use it for that nearly exlusively and do fine.
7 and below: so on some of these you can mix in power ups to catch people who have tricolor guards off guard. you can also use them to gather power with the low blue denominations. 6 and 7 are frequently used in followups, so 3/4/5 are the best targets for gather power/powerup.
anyway all this is very likely to change, this is mostly just typing things for the sake of seeing other people's ideas about what happens where.
Note that I VERY strongly suggest following the color matching game to a large degree. Matched colors are much better than unmatched ones.
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Post by Zejety on Nov 22, 2016 15:37:58 GMT 1
From the paragraph on tokens:
This should probably say "ten sets"
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Post by Southpaw Hare on Nov 23, 2016 3:14:17 GMT 1
From the paragraph on tokens: This should probably say " ten sets" Indeed. Not to be confused with Sets' Ten, which is not appearing in this game.
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Post by Southpaw Hare on Nov 28, 2016 1:57:41 GMT 1
Patch Notes:
- Razorbeast no longer inflicts poison when winning with Parry - Poison Counter damage per turn increase from 1 -> 2
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Post by captain on Dec 10, 2016 12:30:20 GMT 1
Note Stone=counter
Card=Token
I confuse them otherwise
Lightning Strike : The defensive strike, very low payoff move in comparison to the costs incurred, low payoff is made up for by lower risk. However risk is present in high quantities still due to Guard, Counterattack, Evasion, and Parry all cleanly winning and getting high payoff from beating this move. Almost never power surged. There are times where this move is very strong, such as when both players have low (<20) life and have a couple of stones, Using lightning strike when the Blues aren't good is a great way to defend yourself.
Beats other strikes, Power up
Loses GCP, Evasion
Finishing strike : way worse than it looks, it costs on net 17-18 value to even use this move, so it actually has lower payoff than standard strike, even worse is that against defenses (guard and evasion especially) it loses all 3 counters, don't use except in extreme circumstances. (multiple 10s in hand and at least one red 9+ or 3 10s in hand) my rule is at least 31 damage is needed for finishing strike, and 30 is ok sometimes.
Dashing strike : a better finishing strike frequently. Use High red cards (9-10) and sometimes blue/yellow 10 with this. Best when the opponent has no charge counters, but also quite good at stopping evasion heavy opponents. It's primary strength is being a 2 Counter move that only costs 1 counter when you don't win combat. Dealing somewhere between 16-18 damage at a time. Importantly if you aren't sentinel it wins vs standard strike, which using the card as a standard strike wouldn't. You pay 1 counter for the ability to beat standard strikes and 1 more for dealing 6 damage. It's imporant to note that When dashing striking high cards>>>low cards. Dashing strike vs dashing strike doesn't come up often, due to dashing strike costing stones and therefore not being used too often. Dashing strike is a dumping ground for large Reds since standard striking with them is risky.
Beats Standard Strike Peircing strike, Evasion, Power UP
Losses GCP, Lightning Strike
Standard strike : The most efficient attack in terms of raw damage per turn. frequently dealing 11-14 damage for a single strike. However the options it beats are a strict subset of dashing strike for all practical purposes, (we'll ignore guarding without wilds for now). However the efficency is insane, characters that want to counterattack/Parry/guard a lot will use standard strike often since as a defense against Powerup and parry there is no substitute.
Peircing strike : A weird option, Fairly low damage, and gives a mediocre power surge. But that power surge is still useful if you have 3-5 stones, or if the opponent is on low enough HP it is worth it to power surge. Generally I power surge more than most people do, since I find the Guarding habit I have to give me an overflow of Stones.
Guard/Parry/ Counterattack : These all beat and lose to the same options, and are as such basically the same move with different text on win. Therefore I simplify them to GCP for short, one should use one of these options about 20-40% of the time, since they are the best defenses against powerful strikes above. GCP loses to piercing strike which is a meh loss
Guard : if you're early enough Guarding can be useful, especially if you Gather Power a lot, If you actually look at the moves, you may notice that few options actually decrease the number of cards in your hand, only Gathering Power, losing to Parry, and Finishing strike decrease the total number of cards in your hand. So Gathering Power a LOT is the key to making Guard a useful move. Note that if you don't have a wild in your hand, guard is trash, so keep this in mind when choosing when to guard or not. You don't have a (wild) guard in your hand all the time so being able to have this option increases the power of guarding. Note that when you have a wild in hand, be more willing to power surge Piercing strike, as that will be a good source of converting guards>Damage
Counterattack : CA suffers from dealing very low damage, and as such I generally perfer to use Guard/Parry, but blue 8/9/10 can all be used for counterattack without sucking too badly. Especially when you don't have a wild in hand so are weak on the defensive end.
Parry: A kind of inverse Evasion with a power surge of 6 damage. Thoughtseizing your opponent is great, you can take the best card and leave them with a much weaker hand. When you have built up power Tokens from a string of Guards but lost your guard to a peircing strike or something similar.
Evasion : A move I underrated at first, Evasion is actually a solid move when one of a few types of cards is in the discard pile
Note: only option that beats Lightning strike and piercing strike, only loses to dashing strike and Power up, with a minor loss to G/C due to losing Stone, which is worht around 3.5-5 damage depending on how many stones/HP remain in the game.
Wild Cards: Having a Wild in hand is a lot like having a Stone in play especially earlyish when guarding can be used profitably
Red 10 : Red 10 is the best attacking card in the game, Compare doing a dashing strike with red 8 to red 10 red 10 deals 2 more damage, plus you can use the red 8 to Help Gather power, to power surge a peircing strike dealing a total of about 5 damage from an evasion.
The best card in the game (wild 10) : Wild 10 is a red 10 for dashing strike, a blue 10 for counterattack, and a wild for guard. That versitility makes wild 10 super powerful to find when using evasion.
Power up : an option that seems really powerful at first since it beats GCP+evade, but losing to piercing strike really hurts, as does losing to Standard strike, however stones are worth a lot of damage, if you can power surge them or if you can use them to dashing strike or parry. The draw is also solid as drawing a card provides you with 0.5 Stones more, and hopefully you can find pairs to Gather Power.
Characters
The Wandering Sellsword
A well-traveled and worldly adventurer with a practiced sword-arm. Willing to accept any job, their experience has forged them into a versatile warrior who is prepared for any situation.
No changes; uses core rules.
This character is notably one of the only characters with all 10 moves available, this is the only character with an above average life AND evasion, The "baseline" character unfortunately doesn't get to show his strenghts since his strategy is the comparison point rather than anything else
Strong with Evasion, Lightning Strike,
Weak at peircing strike
Suggestions For Fighting, Weak to GCP+Dashing/Standard strike based play, best option for him is power up+dashing strike, He can evade, but the dashing strikes will hit him. His lightning strike is solid defense but GCP fights it hard
Strong VS : sentinel, Channeler
Weak Vs Assasin, Razorbeast
Rating : Normie
The Devout Warpriest
A pious acolyte of peace and war, wielding both divine miracles and a crushing morning-star. Their unwavering dedication to their cause means that surrender is never a consideration to them.
-15 HP
When Gathering Power, heal 2 HP, +1 more HP if either token is Blue.
If you are reduced to 0 HP or less while possessing 5 charge counters, do not lose the game. Instead, after all ability effects are resolved, set your HP to 5 and lose all of your charge counters. During your next turn, all charge counter costs are free for you.
Finishing Strike costs 2 charge counters instead of 3.
You can only add one additional token to Finishing Strike instead of two.
Strenghts: guard,
Weaknesses : hitpoints
This guy looks weird but he really isn't as weird has he looks. He's really Sellsword with some Weirdo Gather power ability
Ok so Imagine dying and then going back to 5HP, Then the free charge counter costs for next turn, followed by realizing you spent 5 Stones to do this action. 5 Stones is worth something like 20 Damage, and the revival just isn't worth the trouble to get to it.
WarpPriest (simplified)
-15 HP
Gathering power grants +3 HP, +2 if neither card is blue
Thus the question becomes will you gather power 5 or more times in 1 game. I don't know but i suspect Not.
RATING : LAMEO
The Phalanx Sentinel
A disciplined soldier equipped with heavy armor and a deadly, defense-penetrating spear. Their well-trained combat style is simple, yet terrifyingly efficient.
+10 HP
When losing a Strike Tie-Breaker (i.e. same strike, higher number), discard two tokens of the same color as the token you played to win the Tie-Breaker.
Piercing Strike deals +3 damage.
Cannot perform Follow-up Attacks
Cannot use Lightning Strike or Evasion
Strength's : Playing WIthout stones GCP, Piercing Strike
Weak at : Standard strike,
Moves he's weak to : Dashing strike (if he has no Stones) Lightning Strike (if he has stones) Evasion (if he has no stones)
Sentinel's Lack of followup Attacks decreases the damage of his standard strikes and his inability to evade makes him vulnerable to Peircing strike. he is reliant on GCP to fight Lightning Strikes.
Now onto the good.
+10 HP : straight number buff not much to see here
+3 Damage on Piercing Strike : This buff makes GCP a much weaker proposition vs Sentinel, one should consider not even going for GCP against sentinel very much.
When losing a Strike Tie-Breaker (i.e. same strike, higher number), discard two tokens of the same color as the token you played to win the Tie-Breaker.
He wins same strike vs Same strike, this alone is key to understanding sentinel gameplay. The strike this applies to the most is standard Strike, Followed by Piercing strike, Dashing strike vs Dashing strike happens the least, but still occasionally happens. Sentinels Core mechanic is this, he both needs to build a hand of Triples to Fight standard strike vs stanard strike with, So his guard has additional power. It's roughly equilvelent to spending a stone to win combat, and if you think of it in those terms you can see why sentinel gets can't evade or Lightning strike (he loses 2! of the K7 RPS game options). However Even so it isn't as strong as one might think, since Dashing strike costs a stone up front and lets sellsword Pump it for massive damage. However this is one of the most unique powers in the game and makes sentinel play VERY differently from other characters.
Beating sentinel
Base your gameplan around Power Up, Lightning Strike, Dashing Strike, Evasion and Some GCP. Evade When sentinel has fewer than 2 Stones in play, since then he isn't threatening Dashing Strike, (DS with 1 stone is much weaker than DS with 2). Avoid Standard Strike and Peircing Strike, and try to avoid Evading When he has stones. Standard Strike is a trap against sentinel, What are you beating with Standard Strike? Peircing Strike? Sure but you can Dashing strike and do almost as well, Evading is also quite scary vs sentinel since Sentinel without Dashing Strike MUST use powerup in that scenario. Also don't peircing Strike, since Power Up is almost strictly better. Plus you need to Power Up anyway to power your spam of Stone costing Dashing Strikes lighting strikes, and evasions.
Overall Bully his lack of Evasion and Lightning Strike and Lean hard on Stuff that costs Stones to use and Power Up. Being Stoneless vs sentinel is a death Sentence since Sentinel has an very strong Grip on stoneless vs stoneless combat.
Wins VS Assasin, Razorbeast
Loses vs Channeler, Sellsword
The Unrelenting Assassin
A focused and vicious killer who pursues their prey with dual light blades and frightening efficiency. Believes in ending a fight quickly with a swift offense.
-5 HP
When performing a Follow-up Attack, you may reveal and use a random token from the pool instead of using one from your hand.
Follow-up Attacks performed with Red tokens inflict Off-Balance.
Counter-Attack inflicts 1 Poison Counter.
Counter-Attack deals no damage.
Winning with Power-up grants one Charge Counter instead of two.
Strenghts: Standard strike
Weak at : Power UP
Weak vs : Dashing Strike, GCP, Evasion,
So this character is the Standard Strike Character, Losing Standard strike vs standard strike agianst this guy is the worst. Thankfully the game offers numerous ways to deal with Standard strikes, combined with the worst power up in the game, puts Assasin in the awkward position of having to defend to force the opponent to peircing strike.
How to beat assasin
Don't Piercing strike or Power Up too much since assasin is all about that 12 damage + draw a card standard strike. Abuse his weak power Up game extensively and throw out lots of guards/Evasions. His Stone game is very weak So pressuring his stones will get him in trouble. He get's in trouble often against lighting strike and dashing strike, since he has to GCP those due to the weak stone game.
Loses To Razorbeast, Sentinel, Channeler
Beats Sellsword
The Mystic Channeler
A practiced weaver of spells who commands the very energies of nature itself. Capable of stealing power from their foes and turning back against them.
-10 HP
When winning with Power-Up, you may take one of the gained charge counters from your opponent instead of the supply.
When your opponent has no Charge Counters, they cannot use Piercing Strike.
Dashing Strike deals extra damage equal to the number of Charge Tokens you possess (after paying for the Strike, before Power Surge).
Cannot use Finishing Strike.
Standard Strike deals -2 damage.
This character is weird, probably of the cast the character with the second least standard gameplan. He will not be using Standard strike often, and will prefer to use dashing strike instead. Channeler also won't be piercing striking, instead preferring to threaten GCP with Power Up.
Basic options
He really likes Dashing strike/Power Up, so people are leery to evade vs him, making Lighting strike more appealing, His Evasion cannot be underestimated, since he wins power UP vs power Up, and threatens lots of damage with Dashing strike it is important for him to use evasion and GCP to stop lighting strike barrages.
How to fight Channeler
Don't evade, since his natural range of Lightning stirke/Dashing strikes/GCP/Evasion/Power UP counters your evasion anyway. GCP instead, Try to avoid Power Surging if on 2 or fewer Stones, as Then he channeler gets to put you through the pain zone.
Lighting strike/Standard STrike/Guard/Peircing strike/Power Up are the strongest options against channeler. Guard allows for one to use Gather power to avoid the pain zone of channeler, Lightning stirke is Strong vs channeler due to it's ability to counter Dashing strikes and Power up. Guard/Power Up threaten Evasion decently.
Strong VS Sentinel Assasin
Weak Vs Razorbeast Sellsword
The Poison-Quilled Razorbeast
A ferocious, spined monster with massive claws that can tear through flesh and steel alike. Generally prefers a life of peaceful solitude, but is immensely dangerous if goaded into aggression.
+5 HP
Counter-Attack and Lightning Strike inflict 1 Poison Counter.
Counter-Attack can benefit from Color Matching with Red as if it were a Strike in additional to Blue (both if Wildcard).
Cannot use Evasion or Finishing Strike.
Dashing Strike costs 2 Charge Counters instead of 1.
Strengths: GCP, Lightning strike, Power Up
Weaknesses, Evasion, Peircing strike, Guard
Strategy
Primairly uses Power up, Lighting strike, and Counter attack, with some Peircing strike mixed in to fight guard more and standard strike to defend your Counter attacks if need be. Primary Gameplan is to ride poison counters to victory by denying the opponent the ability to Gather power and abusing Power Up to make sure they don't get Pairs. The character who fights Standard strikes the best, but is the worst against guards. Doesn't have the best in terms of damage against GCP, and can sometimes lose to GCP+evasion spam if not careful with power ups.
How to counter
Since this character loves lightning strike, lightning striking yourself when you have red 3s and 4s is a good strategy. be cautious though as sometimes red 10 Counterattack will come to bite you in the butt. Guard and evasion are the better options against razorbeast and not dashing striking is important. If you dashing strike you might be in a world of pain from razorbeast and it's almost strictly worse than Standard strike.
Razorbeast Range will look like
Lightning Strike/Peircing Strike/Counter Attack/Guard/Power up
TO fight this you should use
Lighting Strike (low values)/Standard Strike/Peircing Strike/Guard/Evasion
With an Emphasis on evasion and Guard
Good VS
Channeler, Sellsword, Assasin
Weak Vs
Sentinel
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Post by captain on Dec 21, 2016 21:54:06 GMT 1
I'm here to propose that we remove Wilds from the game, because they break guard (and not by a small margin either). What if I told you there was a 0 stone option that did 4 damage, with heal 1, that had the following Matchups Win Vs Lighting strike, Finishing strike, Dashing Strike, Standard Strike, Counterattack Lose Vs Piercing Strike, Power up Functionally win vs Parry, Evasion This option exists today! It's called guarding with a wild, and it totally breaks everything. First off, we can see this most clearly in my True diagram of win/loss imgur.com/a/sD1w6Note that Parry and Counterattack are strictly dominated by guard, and can therefore be safely eliminated. in the second image I show the result fo that elimination. From here there are a few things to notice 1. Lighting strike and finishing strike are the same option! What a disaster they just do different things on hit. 2. The only thing preventing the game from collapsing into a straight rock paper scissors match is Evasion. Because otherwise the game collapses into a simple piercing>guard>strike>piercing, with strikes having a strict speed order to go off of. 3. This makes it unfortunate that 1/3rd of the cast can't evade! Against Razorbeast or sentinel, the game DOES devolve into straight RPS. 4. Worse yet the game has simplified into few options that actually matter, and with the exception of evasion, the idea of having strikes that can each break a type of defense is removed. So let's imagine removing Wilds from the game, how much does the game change? First The primary interaction that changes Standard strike goes from L to small Win vs guard By itself this is enough to dramatically change the game. First Standard Strike goes from "Bad Dashing strike" to the only move that beats guard and piercing strike. Now that guard has a weakness, Parry and Counterattack start to get used to Counter standard strike lightning stirke and dashing strike With Counterattack seeing play, players who have 3 charge counters threaten the counterattacks with their own finishing strike. Evasion gets a minor nerf because it becomes less dissimilar but in the end I think it's worthwhile due to how much better the game is when every option has a reasonable use rather than being a bad version of a different one
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Post by Southpaw Hare on Jan 29, 2017 3:56:34 GMT 1
Okay, so I am currently considering the potential issue proposed by captain regarding Wildcard Guard being too powerful. I'd like to open this up to discussion with two questions, each of which have two choices. Is Wildcard Guard too strong in your opinion? In so, what is a good fix? Here are what I consider to be the two most plausible choices: - Make Wildcard Standard Strike beat Wildcard Guard
- Make Guard not return the played token on win if it is a Wildcard
The first option is the simplest fix to understand and explain rules-wise. The second choice is a stronger nerf that makes it so that Wildcards can never be reused under any circumstance (without retrieving them on a subsequent turn with Evasion). I am also open to other suggestions. I encourage discussion from everyone who has played before ( mysticjuicer don't feel underconfident to give your opinion, it is valuable!)
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Post by captain on Jan 30, 2017 4:18:45 GMT 1
1 Yes. You will be unable to beat The following sentinel range if wildcard guards exist with any character other than sentinel
50% Blue (Wildcard guard if available blue 8/9/10 if not, blue guard if neither available) 25% Standard Strike 25% Piercing Strike
2. Why can't you simply remove Wildcards? Go to 4/3/2 or 4/4/2 or something. Weird special rules about a weird special case seem unnecessary, especially since I've learned how to actually poke and that the games where we had win/loss via timeout should mostly be over. What do wilds actually add to the game that non wilds do not?
The game without wilds is perfectly balenced, EVERY move has multiple counters and beats something. With the notable exception of parry (which probably should be replaced with a power surge on Counter Attack).
In my ideal world Wilds removed from the game
Parry Removed from game
Counter attack gains Power surge>+Y (play an extra card for full damage)
This means the following is how the balence of the game works
The offense follows a strict Hierarch of speed ordering
Lightning>Finish>dash>standard>piercing>power up
Each Blue in turn, loses to Yellow, has a specific red that counters it, and if they cost 0 stones, they are also countered by piercing strike
100% of moves in this version are in the nash because of the fundemental subtriangles within subtriangles. As well every move that deals damage has an optional effect, though some optional effects are stronger than others!
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Post by Southpaw Hare on Jan 30, 2017 6:21:15 GMT 1
1 Yes. You will be unable to beat The following sentinel range if wildcard guards exist with any character other than sentinel 50% Blue (Wildcard guard if available blue 8/9/10 if not, blue guard if neither available) 25% Standard Strike 25% Piercing Strike 2. Why can't you simply remove Wildcards? Go to 4/3/2 or 4/4/2 or something. Weird special rules about a weird special case seem unnecessary, especially since I've learned how to actually poke and that the games where we had win/loss via timeout should mostly be over. What do wilds actually add to the game that non wilds do not? The game without wilds is perfectly balenced, EVERY move has multiple counters and beats something. With the notable exception of parry (which probably should be replaced with a power surge on Counter Attack). In my ideal world Wilds removed from the game Parry Removed from game Counter attack gains Power surge>+Y (play an extra card for full damage) This means the following is how the balence of the game works The offense follows a strict Hierarch of speed ordering Lightning>Finish>dash>standard>piercing>power up Each Blue in turn, loses to Yellow, has a specific red that counters it, and if they cost 0 stones, they are also countered by piercing strike 100% of moves in this version are in the nash because of the fundemental subtriangles within subtriangles. As well every move that deals damage has an optional effect, though some optional effects are stronger than others! I don't think I want to remove wildcards, so this doesn't answer the question. Focus on the issues at hand for now, please.
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Post by captain on Jan 30, 2017 23:27:23 GMT 1
K.I.S.S. principle dictates that of the 2 options presented the one that changes tricolor standard strike to be un-guardable is the best. Theoretically, one could also change it such that all standard strikes are unguardable if that would make any difference.
But why don't you want to remove wilds from the game? What do they add to the game to make it worth their inclusion (I ask the same with having parry vs just having a power surge on counter attack) barring the rules complexity on regarding how Wilds interact in the corner case where color matters, (standard strike vs guard interaction). Wilds hurt gameplay more than they help. I'm of the opinion that corner case rules should be almost non existent if possible, guard has 4! special rules regarding it's win/loss, one for counterattack, one for the guard mirror, and one for guard vs Standard strike, and standard strike vs guard has an extra rule since it uses color matching.
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Post by DiscoCokkroach on Feb 28, 2017 22:07:54 GMT 1
Is there a way that I can get a hold of the TTS module for this? I'd really like to try playing it (and perhaps playtest it if I take a liking to it).
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Post by Southpaw Hare on Feb 28, 2017 22:54:25 GMT 1
Is there a way that I can get a hold of the TTS module for this? I'd really like to try playing it (and perhaps playtest it if I take a liking to it). Yes, certainly. I'll share a link with you once I'm home.
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Post by Southpaw Hare on Mar 1, 2017 15:51:43 GMT 1
Is there a way that I can get a hold of the TTS module for this? I'd really like to try playing it (and perhaps playtest it if I take a liking to it). ...and I forgot. Eventually! Soon.
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Post by Southpaw Hare on Mar 2, 2017 2:03:03 GMT 1
Is there a way that I can get a hold of the TTS module for this? I'd really like to try playing it (and perhaps playtest it if I take a liking to it). Here you are: www.dropbox.com/s/z1c6t32scm97i7f/TS_Save_6.json?dl=0Place it in : %UserProfile%\Documents\My Games\Tabletop Simulator\Saves\ Adjust the number on the end of the filename as necessary.
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Post by DiscoCokkroach on Mar 4, 2017 10:05:21 GMT 1
Is there a way that I can get a hold of the TTS module for this? I'd really like to try playing it (and perhaps playtest it if I take a liking to it). Here you are: www.dropbox.com/s/z1c6t32scm97i7f/TS_Save_6.json?dl=0Place it in : %UserProfile%\Documents\My Games\Tabletop Simulator\Saves\ Adjust the number on the end of the filename as necessary. Thanks! I got it working tonight and I think I know the rules (although I'm gonna need a reference card for a while LOL). I don't know a whole lot of people that have TTS, however. Is there anyone on here that could play some games with me?
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Post by captain on Mar 4, 2017 10:40:19 GMT 1
I can
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Post by Southpaw Hare on Mar 4, 2017 23:50:40 GMT 1
captain and DiscoCokkroach New patch notes for you to use starting immediately: - Wildcard Standard Strike now wins against Wildcard Guard, instead of visa-versa - Channeler's ability to make their opponent unable to play Piercing Strike while out of Charge Tokens is now optional. Worded as: "Whenever your opponent has no charge tokens, you may take away their Piercing Strike move and set it aside. If you do, they cannot take it back or play it until they have charge tokens."
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Post by captain on Apr 17, 2019 12:20:04 GMT 1
I'd like to start playing this game again someday. I have lots of good memories playing this game. I'm still not a fan of wilds but the rest of the game was great.
I might run a real money tournament someday soon^TM of this, but I'd need access to the TTS file which contains BST (I don't have it) and I'd also like to test 1 major rules change
1. Parry no longer exists, counter attack now has a power surge that Deals 2 damage+discard 1, basically parry was very weak and almost never better than counter-attack. Making parry's effect a power surge seems like the right move.
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Post by Southpaw Hare on Apr 17, 2019 15:33:10 GMT 1
I'd like to start playing this game again someday. I have lots of good memories playing this game. I'm still not a fan of wilds but the rest of the game was great. I might run a real money tournament someday soon^TM of this, but I'd need access to the TTS file which contains BST (I don't have it) and I'd also like to test 1 major rules change 1. Parry no longer exists, counter attack now has a power surge that Deals 2 damage+discard 1, basically parry was very weak and almost never better than counter-attack. Making parry's effect a power surge seems like the right move. Giving out the Tabletop Simulator file is no problem at all:
I suppose I'm not sure what to do with this project at this point. I'm very happy with what I've made, and it has generally gotten a good reception from testers, but I haven't felt terribly motivated to go any further with it thus far. Perhaps I could, though...
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Post by Southpaw Hare on May 12, 2019 1:06:24 GMT 1
I decided to work on one of the big things that had been holding me back on this game for a while: coming up with unique icons for the various moves. This is both important and difficult, so I'd been basically procrastinating on it, but I felt inspired to give it my best shot. Here is a draft of what I have at the moment:
My hope is that it is immediately clear which is which to anyone already familiar with the game, and that people new will find them intuitive and memorable after seeing what they match to.
{Spoiler} Reading across rows:
Lightning Strike, Finishing Strike, Dashing Strike, Standard Strike, Piercing Strike
Guard, Counter-Attack, Parry, Evasion, Charge-Up (Previously called Power-Up)
As a minor note, I'm also changing the name of Power-Up to Charge-Up. This is to reduce confusion between it and Yomi's "Power Up" phase, which it is different from and of which there is a similar phase in this game called "Gathering Power".
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Post by Plum on May 13, 2019 15:12:13 GMT 1
I'm not super familiar with the game (I'm not a big Yomi person, so I've not been following this thread), but those icons all seem pretty straight-forward to me. I looked at the spoiler to see what the names were, then looked at the icons a few minutes later and was able to match them to their names. So from that point of view, I'd say they are doing their job
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Post by captain on May 14, 2019 1:48:50 GMT 1
Quality evals
Seems good Parry, Guard, Standard, Lighting, Finishing, charge up, counter attack
Probably needs a small amount of work
Piercing strike (should bend the line or something maybe a break in the line?)
Dashing strike (needs a small amount more Motion blur of some sort)
Had to use the process of elimination to find out
Evasion.
I will note I figured out the first 7 without even trying, and pierce/dashing was reasonably obvious but evasion was not at first glance. I kind of wish Dashing strike had more *motion* of some sort and piercing strike showed itself ... piercing something. Like, have that line be Broken somehow.
I don't know what to do with evasion it's definitely the trickiest one to make it seem like an "evasion"
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Post by Plum on May 14, 2019 10:26:19 GMT 1
For piercing strike, I'd be tempted to keep the super simple triangle format and have a flat triangle pointing to the right, with a vertical bar two-thirds of the way along (i.e., a flat side-on view of the triangle going through a shield). Similar to this but elongated and with the line shifted to overlay the triangle: For the dashing strike, maybe two triangles slightly overlapping, similar to the classic fast forward icon? Similar to: For evasion, if you want to keep to simple geometric shapes, how about a small triangle (representing the strike) and a curved bar wrapping around to the right of it (representing the target dodging). Similar to this, but reversed and blockier to keep with the aesthetic of the other shapes:
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Post by Southpaw Hare on May 14, 2019 15:27:04 GMT 1
Plum Good suggestions. I will probably use some elements of these on my next draft. It's notable that the first icon is also a symbol from CD players (go to next track or something), so I probably want to avoid using too much VCR/Cassette/CD iconogrify. I'll need to change it a bit.
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Post by Plum on May 14, 2019 16:23:01 GMT 1
Haha yes, that was just the closest I could find on a google search. Given that it's Piercing, I thought having the bar in the middle of the triangle, to show that the strike is piercing through. I'm not artistically inclined so I had to make do with what I could find online
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Post by Southpaw Hare on May 14, 2019 19:36:56 GMT 1
Okay, so here is attempt #2:
Quite a few things have changed. First up, I decided to be consistent on how I use the star icon as representing the cost of a charge counter, not just on the Finishing Strike, but on everything, so the 4 moves that cost 1 charge now all have a star somewhere in the design. I think I'll also use that star as the actual icon for charge counters in other areas of the game as well.
I've changed the Dashing Strike icon to be reminiscent of a Fast Forward icon, just as Plum recommended. I think that's a great idea. I have changed Standard Strike to take Dashing Strike's old use of a two-tone bordered look in order to make it stand out from the others and be similar to Guard, as they are the two most "Basic" moves. Piercing Strike is now stabbing through two solid lines, somewhat like the other CD Player recommendation but actually going through the lines, and also two of them in order to look more distinct than the X that makes up Parry.
Evasion now uses the charge star as the main focus, appearing like a Shooting Star with movement lines. The others have been touched up in minor ways, such as Counter-Attack having fatter arrows so as not to be mistaken for straight lines.
I think this draft is definitely better than the last one. What do you all think now? Any further suggestions or things that still need improvement?
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Post by Southpaw Hare on May 14, 2019 21:13:44 GMT 1
By recommendation, I decided to change Piercing Strike even further:
It is now piercing one thick line instead of two thin ones, but I added in extra action/destruction marks in order to be more eye-catching.
In other news, here are the first drafts of some veeeery prototype-y move cards:
There's a lot to consider here in terms of how information is presented. I doubt this is anywhere close what I want in the end, but it's a start. All feedback is appreciated.
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Post by Plum on May 14, 2019 22:09:58 GMT 1
I like those icons a lot better! The new version of piercing is almost exactly what I was failing to describe but the extra impact lines do a lot to add... well, impact If I was to criticise anything (and this is purely for the sake of criticism, I actually think it all looks great), I would say to make the dash triangles a bit... sleeker? Like, they're fatter than the regular strike triangle - I'm thinking they should be more evocative of speed - slimmer, more horizontal maybe? Regarding the card templates - I don't know the rules of this game at all and I can still figure out what they're likely saying, which is a good sign. Your lightning strike card costs one star, and beats your opponent's finish-dash-regular-pierce-charge, also beats a higher number (slower?) lightning. Deals 7 damage, can spend another star to add 3 more damage and confusion (I'm guessing - that's a common confusion icon), and if the card played is red you get two more damage? Again that's just my guesses based on the card iconography. I imagine if I read the rules it would be clearer but then I couldn't say what they look like to the untrained eye
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Post by Southpaw Hare on May 14, 2019 22:13:07 GMT 1
I like those icons a lot better! The new version of piercing is almost exactly what I was failing to describe but the extra impact lines do a lot to add... well, impact If I was to criticise anything (and this is purely for the sake of criticism, I actually think it all looks great), I would say to make the dash triangles a bit... sleeker? Like, they're fatter than the regular strike triangle - I'm thinking they should be more evocative of speed - slimmer, more horizontal maybe? Regarding the card templates - I don't know the rules of this game at all and I can still figure out what they're likely saying, which is a good sign. Your lightning strike card costs one star, and beats your opponent's finish-dash-regular-pierce-charge, also beats a higher number (slower?) lightning. Deals 7 damage, can spend another star to add 3 more damage and confusion (I'm guessing - that's a common confusion icon), and if the card played is red you get two more damage? Again that's just my guesses based on the card iconography. I imagine if I read the rules it would be clearer but then I couldn't say what they look like to the untrained eye Your analysis of the card is pretty much perfect. The spiral is the current symbol I'm using for the status called "Off-Balance". It might not be the best symbol, but I was basing it off the visual theme of "being dizzy". Mechanically, it's analogous to "Knocked Down" in Yomi.
I'll have all of the prototypes done soon, so stay tuned.
Can you figure out the Finishing Strike notation based on what you know, BTW?
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