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Post by captain on May 14, 2019 22:59:09 GMT 1
I showed these to my father, by making the symbols and asking him "of the 10 on the list what do you think this symbol corrrisponds to?" and it took him less than a second for all of them but dashing strike. IDK about what to do about dashing strike, but the other 9 are all great! The fact that Star = costs 1 is actually another great decision.
For the notation above My father gave 2 guesses for the lightning strike the first was a Replacement effect and the second was "in addition to" so he thought that "red card means this attack deals 2 damage rather than 7"
If you want to make it clear that it is "in addition to" add a + before the numbers. Other than that the iconnography is great!
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Post by Southpaw Hare on May 14, 2019 23:05:50 GMT 1
And here are the prototype cards:
There's a lot to unpack here. Just about every one has some weird edge situation that makes it unique in some way. For now, let's just get your raw reaction. Have at them some more captain Plum and all. Thanks again for all the help from both of you, BTW!
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Post by Southpaw Hare on May 14, 2019 23:20:29 GMT 1
I actually forgot to put Off-Balance-related iconogrify on the three cards that involve it. Now present:
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Post by captain on May 15, 2019 0:01:17 GMT 1
Ok I printed out the sheet and showed them to my father.
He was able to on the first try get every single interaction correctly EXCEPT he didn't know who chose the card to be discarded on Parry.
Same feedback as before it is unclear that the damage gets increased when you use optional effects.
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Post by captain on May 15, 2019 0:14:58 GMT 1
Oh sorry he wasn't able to get the multicolor guard vs Multicolor strike interaction correctly I forgot to aak him about that one
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Post by Southpaw Hare on May 15, 2019 0:27:38 GMT 1
captain It's probably fine that the details of discarding aren't exactly clear. I expected that, and there's just not enough room to want to write that out. And the double-multi-color stuff is another thing where it's probably fine that you need to read that in the rulebook. I agree with adding plus signs to the damage numbers in many places, yes.
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Post by Plum on May 15, 2019 11:13:16 GMT 1
The finishing strike is less clear. If the card is red, it gets 2 extra damage. I would then guess that it deals X damage where X is the number of the card itself? Then you can discard up to two more cards (i'm assuming white is 'any' colour) to add their damage as well?
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Post by Southpaw Hare on May 15, 2019 12:12:31 GMT 1
The finishing strike is less clear. If the card is red, it gets 2 extra damage. I would then guess that it deals X damage where X is the number of the card itself? Then you can discard up to two more cards (i'm assuming white is 'any' colour) to add their damage as well? That is exactly correct. X is the damage of your original card, and the red color bonus applies to the original card as well. Y and Z are two additional cards from your hand, and the arrow indicates that it is optional, so you may play up to two extra cards for a total of three cards worth of damage. The colors of the extra cards are irrelevant.
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Post by Plum on May 15, 2019 13:59:59 GMT 1
Nice, that's the benefit of clear iconography! All of the other cards look straight-forward, though I'm guessing that the dizzy symbol crossed out means that dashing and evasion can't be used while dizzy? One question though - do you do all of the steps on a card in sequence? So for a strike, you get to draw a card, and discard a card for extra damage. Doing the steps in order implies that you draw, then potentially discard that drawn card for the extra damage? So I'm guessing that the the Red Card = 2 Damage line refers to the extra card discarded, not the original card? If it was to refer to the original card, I would move it higher up so there's no confusion
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Post by Southpaw Hare on May 15, 2019 14:23:58 GMT 1
Nice, that's the benefit of clear iconography! All of the other cards look straight-forward, though I'm guessing that the dizzy symbol crossed out means that dashing and evasion can't be used while dizzy? One question though - do you do all of the steps on a card in sequence? So for a strike, you get to draw a card, and discard a card for extra damage. Doing the steps in order implies that you draw, then potentially discard that drawn card for the extra damage? So I'm guessing that the the Red Card = 2 Damage line refers to the extra card discarded, not the original card? If it was to refer to the original card, I would move it higher up so there's no confusion That is correct, all items are done in order, and the order in Standard Strike (and probably Guard's special effect vs. Counter-Attack) is one that is potentially important, as you can discard the newly-drawn card. And yes, the color applies only to the original card, and yes, I was worried that there might be some confusion there. I was also trying to keep consistency with putting all the color-related things at the bottom though, since it's the same for each classification of card and really just more of reminder text than actual rules specific to the card. Maybe there's a way to make it more clear that it refers only to the original card instead of changing the position?
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Post by Plum on May 15, 2019 16:27:44 GMT 1
Maybe you could combine the line with the discard line, for example:
Discard [Y] / [red Y] -> Y / Y+2 damage
That makes it explicitly clear that discarding a regular card gives Y damage, while a red card gives Y damage plus two extra
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Post by Southpaw Hare on May 15, 2019 16:43:27 GMT 1
Maybe you could combine the line with the discard line, for example: Discard [Y] / [red Y] -> Y / Y+2 damage That makes it explicitly clear that discarding a regular card gives Y damage, while a red card gives Y damage plus two extra Sorry, to be clear, that is not how it works. You always play card X every turn along with your move, and only that card has a bonus based on color. Cards Y and Z are (optionally) played from your hand, and do not have any color bonus. So the way you're wording it here would not be appropriate.
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Post by Plum on May 15, 2019 19:41:29 GMT 1
Oh in that case, the last bit of the regular strike card is a little confusing, as it looks as though the colour bonus is applying to the card you've just discarded. I think I'd move it higher I think (maybe immediately after the base damage line).
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Post by captain on May 19, 2019 10:34:14 GMT 1
Writing this down to look at later to where I go wrong in the future.
The Options in order of how good they are to land followed by the value I assign each one
1. Standard Strike (14) 2. Finishing Strike (12) 3. Power up (11) 4. Dashing Strike (9) 5. Piercing Strike (8) 6. Guard (5.5) 7. Parry (5.3) 8. Counter-Attack (5) 9. Lightning Strike (4.5) 10. Evasion (3.5)
Note : if you beat a charge counter add 4.5 (roughly) to the amount of damage dealt.
Values (roughly)
Charge counter 4-4.5 damage (note that power surging piercing strike is still a good move in many circumstances it depends mostly on finishing strike)
Off balence 0.8 damage
Off balence vs opponeent with no stones 1.2 damage
Follow up attack 2 damage
Card draw ~2.25 (finding Red 10 and red 3 can really help)
Notes on move choices
1. Your Bread and butter move are Standard Strike, Guard, Piercing Strike/Power up and Counterattack. I'm unsure which one of power up and piercing strike is better, Piercing strike beating Power up head to head is definitely a big point in its favor, but power up cleanly beating evasion is nothing to sneeze at. As well as power ups generally higher payoff for winning. The other noteworthy thing is that there aren't enough reds so the fact that power up gets to use a color that isn't generally well liked is a big plus. While Piercing strike feeds off of a color that is always in high demand.
These options are your bread and butter because of a few factors
1. an option that costs stones to uses BOTH A: is worse off when whiffed and B: is less effective when hit. Spending 1 Stone to get 9 damage sounds great but you could have power surged it with piercing strike instead for 4 additional damage there, making the effect of winning combat with lightning strike only 5 damage. Meanwhile losing to Counterattack with lightning strike is a double whammy, not only do you suffer the effects of losing (typically taking 4+them healing 1) but you ALSO lose a charge counter.
2 They have fairly high payoffs for their cost. While Counter-attack's payoff isn't great, most options that beat standard strike are similarly low payoff. Dashing Strike and Finishing Strike both cost Stones to use and there aren't an unlimted supply of those. One can only dashing strike so many times before they run out of charge counters or large cards.
2. WildCards are probably best for guarding followed by standard striking. Since standard strike is such a common move it is hard to justify playing guards that aren't wildcards, meanwhile wildcard guarding beats both red and yellow standard strikes. The normal anti standard strike tactics still are necessary due to wildcard guard not beating wild standard strike, but in general wildcard guard is a significant improvement commpared to wild standard strike.
Beyond that the 2 most common moves are Dashing Strike and Finishing Strike. Dashing Strike fits right in with the "Bread and Butter" moves As a move that beats both Standard strike and piercing strike/powerup but loses to Guard and Counter attack, Completing the pentagram. Finishing Strike is special, It breaks the pentagram wide open. Finishing Strike is noteworthy because it beats every normally high value option, and loses to lower value options like parry/Evasion/Lightning strike. It also beats Counter-attack, meaning that a range of Finishing Strike/Standard STrike Beats every option against foes with 0 stones. A range of Standard Strike/Guard/Finishing Strike is really hard to beat when you don't have stones available. And even when you do if the person with finishing strike goes Finishing Strike/Standard Strike/Guard/Counterattack/Piercing Strike basing their range on Guard/Counterattack/Standard you will struggle with this fight. Finishing strike warps gameplay because it uniquely beats counterattack AND standard strike. Probably the best defensive countermeasure against Finishing strike is Evasion, since evasion beats Finishing strike and Standard strike AND piercing strike, while losing less hard to guard/Counterattack than Lightning strike does.
Characters
Sentinel : The character most likely to power surge piercing strike, and I frequently do it turn 1. Due to his ability he is more reliant on cards than Charge counters.
Typical Ranges
1. When opponent cannot use Finishing strike
35% Standard strike 25% piercing strike 40% counterattack
2. when opponent can use finishing strike
45% standard strike 55% guard
Razorbeast : Razorbeast cannot finishing strike, so he plays the Pentagram game exclusively. His corners of the pentagram are lightning strike, Standard strike, Counterattack, Guard, Piercing Strike/powerup
Typical range
When charge counters <=3
15% Lightning strike 25% Counterattack 20% Piercing Strike 25% Standard Strike 15%Powerup
OR
10% Lightning strike 30% Counterattack 20% Piercing Strike 30% Standard Strike 10%Powerup
When charge counters >3
15% lighting strike 30% standard strike 25% counterattack 25% guard 5% piercing strike
When opponent has Finishing strike
40% lightning strike 15% counterattack 10% standard strike 35% powerup
OR
20% lightning stirke 20% counterattack 20% standard strike 10% piercing strike 10% powerup 20% guard
If opponent is only tricolor guarding
30% Lightning strike 25% counterattack 10% Standard strike (all tricolor) 15% piercing strike 20% Powerup
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Post by Southpaw Hare on Jul 20, 2019 20:16:53 GMT 1
Here is a significant new rules change:
Off-Balance rule no longer gives a special detriment to Standard Strike vs. another Standard Strike. ...instead... Off-Balance now increases the number of your Strikes by +5 for the purposes of tie-breakers.
This means that for all four of the strikes you can use (Dashing Strike isn't available), any 3 becomes an 8, a 4 becomes a 9, 5 becomes 10, and 6-10 are all 11+ in terms of speed (damage is unaffected).
I believe that this change is better for both balance (increasing the overall value of Off-Balance) and simplicity (much easier to explain, universal to all strikes). The previous rule was actually so complex that I was having trouble figuring out how to accurately represent it with the new iconography without either making it look to complex or accidentally being inaccurate about how it works. Now, instead of having to reflex the Off-Balance effect on the Move cards, I can put a big +5 on a card for Off-Balance itself as a sort of status effect reminder.
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Post by Southpaw Hare on Aug 4, 2019 21:25:59 GMT 1
So I've decided on another big change.
Parry's win effect is completely replaced with:
Pay for and trigger the Win Effect of any Strike. (Use the same Token Card, do not gain Color Matching on the Strike.)
This is essentially me giving in to more closely copying Yomi, as this makes Parry very similar to Yomi's Dodge - almost identical, in fact, insofar as the mechanics in the games roughly equate to each other. This opens up the ability to deal big damage even while being defensive, and allows for Confirmation into Finishing Strike, albeit at some extra cost (doing so would cost a total of 4 charges, as well as not allow the +2 Red Color Match).
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Post by Southpaw Hare on Aug 9, 2019 3:41:38 GMT 1
Major new changes and additions. New Core Mechanic:Spirit BurstEach player begins the game with a card in front of them detailing a status effect named Spirit Burst. The card begins face-up with no counters on it and is considered "inactive". Under normal circumstances, it can be activated once per game and grants a status condition for 3 turns. On a player's turn, before playing Combat Cards for the turn, they may activate Spirit Burst if it is face-up and inactive. If their opponent has already played Combat Cards for the turn, they return them and may make new decisions (including activating their own Spirit Burst). When activated, 3 Charge Counters and 3 Timer Counters are placed on the card. At the beginning of each turn after the Draw Phase (and poison damage, if applicable), 1 Timer Counter is removed from an active Spirit Burst. Once the last Timer Counter is removed, all remaining Charge Counters are also removed, it becomes inactive, and the card is flipped (cannot be activated again). While active, Spirit Burst provides the following benefits:- All Charge Counters on the card can be spent in place of normal Charge Counters from the player's stock (however, they do not count as being in the player's stock for any special effects).- All Strikes have the added Color Match: Multicolor = +3 Damage (this stacks with the normal Red Color Match).Although not possible through normal means, some special character abilities allow the Spirit Burst card to be "Refreshed". When this happens: - If currently active, set the number of Timer Counters and Charge Counters back to 3. - If currently flipped to the back, flip it to the front. It can now be activated again at a later time. - If currently flipped to the front and inactive, there is no effect. Character Change:The Devout Warpriest is overhauled in order to use the new Spirit Burst mechanic, a more refined version of its original character concept. * -15 HP* When Gathering Power, heal 2 HP, +1 HP if either token is Blue.
* When reduced to 0 HP or less while Spirit Burst is unflipped and inactive, do not lose the game. Instead, after all abilities are resolved, set your HP to 5 and activate Spirit Burst. * Finishing Strike may be Power Surged to Refresh Spirit BurstNew Character:The Glory-Seeking Treasure Hunter* -5 HP* Dashing Strike has an additional win effect: the opponent reveals their hand of tokens and you may steal one Multicolor token (if any)* Spirit Burst lasts permanently (no Timer Counters)* When activating Spirit Burst, you must reveal 5 Multicolor tokens from your hand
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Post by Southpaw Hare on Aug 10, 2019 17:03:58 GMT 1
Here's a look at the latest revision of the move cards:
These incorporate all of the new rules changes as well as many of the design suggestions from Plum and other community members, all of which I think make them look more clear and concise.
Some changes include: - Color Matching has its own consistent area at the top of the Effect section
- Title and Cost are now at the top instead of below the main image
- Cost and Off-Balance Restriction are now on the left in order to be more viewable in Tabletop Simulator or for people who hold their cards like Poker cards (as opposed to MtG cards)
- The change to Off-Balance that removed special interaction with Standard Strike has simplified that card
- The Overhaul to Parry simplifies it greatly (from previously being the most busy card of them all)
I think these cards work a lot better. Feel free to continue critiquing them, though - they can always be even better still. Thanks for your help, everyone!
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Post by Plum on Aug 12, 2019 10:52:00 GMT 1
I like that - everything in there seems to be clear and easily understood. I might be tempted to replace the Guard text "Take Back []" with "Take Back This Card" or "Take Back This []", as it's only a little more text and makes it crystal clear that you're taking back that card, and not just taking back a card (from your discard). That's not a big deal though as I assume that the manual would give that information in more detail anyway
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Post by captain on Aug 18, 2019 16:26:32 GMT 1
Time for a tier list, unlike other tier lists this is going to be a tier list of the MOVES, for sellsword, though some of the same principles apply to all characters .
In () is the estimated payoff for winning with the move against an opponent that did not use a charge counter, for now I'm assuming a charge counter is worth 4 damage.
Tier Most powerful
Tricolor Guard (5) - there are precisely 3 counters to this action, Piercing Strike, Powerup and Tricolor standard strike, it has low payoff for winning (Drawing cards is actually a very weak action worth less than 1 charge counter), but since it's free, it still can provide good benefits.
Tricolor Standard Strike (12) - Not quite as busted as guard, but still warps the game in a different way, you see with the ever present threat of tricolor guard, tricolor standard strike is the best answer to it, hilariously wildcard 3 forms a perfect 2 option range with just these 2 moves. together if you had an infinite supply of wildcards you would play one of these wildcard moves 30% of the time.There exist a few ways to fight these moves.
Tier- Defense against the dark arts
Dashing strike(9) - A top tier option, beats standard strike and loses to guard but hits pretty hard (16-18) and causes Knockdown for the cost of 2 charge counters. The nice thing is that you only pay 1 charge counter when you whiff. However resources are a big issue so it can often be hard to get going
Piercing Strike(8)- mostly superior to power up, the best answer to guard that isn't wildcard Standard Strike Also beats Parry/Counterattack.
Parry(10)/Counterattack(5) - Mostly the same move, my father and I frequently debate as to which option is better. With him on team Parry and me on team counterattack. His logic is that parry deals a lot more damage, 14 (including blue bonus) compared to counterattack 5, and if you consider a charge counter to be worth 4-5 damage, then it's dealing DOUBLE damage. It also is less crappy against guard. I accept this argument entirely, my counterpoint is that not being able to dashing strike is a significant loss, if you have 2 charge counters and parry a standard strike, sure you deal 13, but then they aren't scared of your dashing strikes and can punish you hard with their own. ICounterattack is better against the mirror which is important if you both are standard strike heavy and against piercing strike, which happens a lot. However if the opponent has Finishing strike, please use Parry.
Tier "I don't have 2 charge counters"
Standard Strike Regular(9) - So by "regular" I actually mean standard strikes with low red values(3/4). When you are unable to Dashing strike, you can use these low value standard strikes as a replacement. This allows you to counter Tricolor standard strike. It is key to use power up rather than piercing strike if you are doing this, as you won't be able to win piercing strike mirrors anyway.
Power up (10)- As mentioned in Standard Strike regular this move is good as a way to support you when you are using low value standard strikes as your answer to wildcard standard strike. This strategy is slightly worse than playing dashing strike heavy but it does win game. When your opponent doesn't have charge counters and is knocked down, Play a range of 60% large standard strike 40% power up,
Tier " highly situational"
Lighting strike- Generally bad, but there are 2 circumstances where it is good. The first is when you are knocked down, then it is a useful answer to the otherwise unstoppable standard strike+powerup spam. It is also useful if you both spirit burst, there you need an answer to finishing strike and piercing strike, of which this is the only solution to both.
tier "please don't use this"
Finishing strike(12): unlike dashing strike finishing strike is hard to pull off. It does force people to use parry instead of counterattack, but I don't consider it better than not using it. It is a sword best left unused.
Regular guard(5), You might think that you can get cheeky and guard with blue 5 when your opponent is threatening dashing strike, sadly you are mistaken as the Standard Strike/undercut standard strike/Power up/counterattack/Tricolor guard range is still popular when one HAS 2 charge counters. Since one isn't always privy to having red 8/9/10 in hand for dashing strikes.
Evasion(4) : Evasion sucks, if your opponent has 2 charge counters it sucks because they will be dashing striking a lot, and if they have 0 they will be using power up
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Post by Southpaw Hare on Aug 20, 2019 1:12:58 GMT 1
After some serious playtesting and discussion, I've decided to try out some very large and experimental changes. This is a major overhaul that seeks to add more public information, as well as longer-lasting consequences and strategic setup. Core Changes:
Players have a queue of the last 3 Token Cards played. The queue is called The Positioning Queue, and the 3 slots are known as Slots X, Y, and Z. The Token Card played for the current turn is played into Slot X. At the start of each turn, the tokens slide down (X moves to Y, Y moves to Z, Z goes to the discard, and slot X is free to play into for the turn). Additional token cards (Y or Z) are not played from the hand, but rather use the tokens in slots Y and Z. All previous instances of the shorthand of "token Y" or "token Z" now refer to the tokens in these slots. Abilities Color Match on all three tokens in your Positioning Queue, and the bonus depends on the number of them that match. The new Color Matches are: Strikes(Red): +0/+1/+3 Damage Defenses(Blue): +1/+2/+4 Health Utilities(Yellow): +0/+1/+2 Token Draws During Spirit Burst(stacks with Red), Strikes(Multicolor): +1/+3/+6
Specific Ability Changes:
Standard Strike damage changed from X to 1/2 X
Piercing Strike base damage reduced from 5 to 4.
Dashing Strike's Power Surged damage changed from 6 to Y.
Evasion includes a win effect: Discard all tokens from your opponent's queue
Block's win effect of "Return Token X to your hand" is replaced with "Rearrange any two tokens in your Positioning Queue". (This only includes actual tokens, not empty slots - you cannot swap one token to an empty slot.)
Character Changes:
All characters removed from the game until further notice. They will be re-added over time to mesh with the overhaul.
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Post by Southpaw Hare on Aug 21, 2019 0:58:11 GMT 1
New rules changes and clarifications that synergize with the recent changes. Core Changes:
Win Effects are considered an ordered list of separate steps. If the first line contains damage and/or the Off-Balance status, this line is called the "Base Damage".
The effect of "Strike Clashes" (Same Strike, Same Number) is now the following: Both players "win" the exchange and perform only the first line of the ability's win effect (and Color Matching).
Specific Ability Changes:
Finishing Strike now has all of its damage on a single line of its Win Effect: "X + Y + Z"
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Post by captain on Aug 22, 2019 5:37:32 GMT 1
Shoutouts to my dad for beating the snot out of me while I learned how to play with the new game.
The most important lesson he taught was that Y values are King, and that your strategy is dictated largely by the value of Y you have, if Y-8,9,10 you are in a much better spot than if Y=6 or 7. Of secondary (but not zero) importance is color, of this the tier jumps go Yellow>Blue>red, a Yellow is the most powerful because drawing 1 card is worth more than 1 damage, and red is the weakest because it is 1 step behind blue in each turn.
The other thing he showed me was that if you have a wide enough range of moves you want to get in with powerful moves and not the one that wins X vs X. Examples include going for powerup instead of piercing strike, Dashing strike over lightning strike, Parry over Counterattack, and large standard strikes over small ones.
The final thing he did was abuse the crap out of me when I didn't have charge counters. If you have 2 charge counters and your opponent has 0 you can beat their face in with a wall of dashing strikes/Powerups/Counterattacks and they frequently have little to no recourse. When you have 1 charge counter meanwhile you need to use Lightning-strike to not get abused by Dashing-strike. Basically whenever I have 0 charge counters I always spirit burst, and when i do have spirit burst online I prioritize getting more charge counters via charge up.
The Rules I now follow
1. Always Gather power if the cards are <=7
2. Always Spirit burst when you have 0 charge counters
3. only play finishing strike if it deals >26 damage
4. never evade
5. Never play piercing strike unless it's an endgame or they are knocked down
6. always guard blue (or wildcard)
7. Never standard strike blue
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Post by Southpaw Hare on Sept 10, 2019 14:32:05 GMT 1
So far, all of my recent changes have been very well-received in playtesting. I think the game is in a much better state today that it was a few months ago, despite needing to redo the characters.
I want to try one more major change. One thing I'm not happy with is the healing that results from Blue Color-Matching on Defenses. Not many fighting games have this kind of healing, or especially so much, so it's not thematically appropriate, and also the amount of health and overall game length may still be slightly too high even with all the recently-added damage. The reason I originally used HP Gain is simply because I couldn't think of a unique alternative and didn't want to use Charge Counters again, which would be to strong to hand out in whole pieces as part of the color-matching effect. This got me thinking of an alternative. Here is my current experimental change:
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Rules Change: Blue Color-Matching on Defenses no longer heal HP. Instead, it adds counters to the Tactics Wheel. The amount of charges added is the same as the previous amount of HP gained (+1/+2/+4).
The Tactics Wheel is an area of the board shared between both players, visualized as a circle divided into sections - each section can hold 1 counter and represents 1/5th of the wheel. When players Color-Match with Blue on Defenses, they add counters to the wheel. Any amount over 5 are wasted. Then, if the wheel is filled with all 5 counters, they are all removed and the player who just placed the counter(s) that filled it is given 1 Charge Counter. If both players added counters simultaneously (possible if both players simultaneously used Guard and both Color-Matched with at least one Blue on that turn), neither receive the Charge Counter (the wheel is still emptied).
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This rule makes the game slightly more complicated and makes it take up more table-space. However, I'm thinking that the benefits will outweigh the costs. Feedback is appreciated.
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Post by captain on Sept 11, 2019 7:16:23 GMT 1
Thoughts after 3 games with my father we used white go stones and a bowl to keep track of the tatics wheel, and 4 decks of playing cards for the card deck (Clubs= red diamonds=yellow, hearts=blue spades=wild). I printed out on cardstock the 2 ability hands.
1. The tactics wheel makes blue color matching extremely binary. it either is completely insane (effectively double damage) or worthless.
2/of note when Y and Z are blue and number of stones in tactics wheel is 1 or 2 you have a large edge.
3. If matching with blue would result in situation 2 above one should intentionally not color match. If there are 2 tactics wheel cards color matching is optimal as it turns a bad situation into a neutral one
4. The other situation is where both parties would win the stone when color matching with blue, this is a pretty janky position which results in a lot of guard vs guard.
The game also takes a lot longer to play now, moving to x and y and doing stones is pretty slow In the super old version a game of razorbeast vs sentinel was over in less than 20 minutes, now many games take 30-40 minutes due to all the mechanical actions we have to take.
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Post by Southpaw Hare on Sept 11, 2019 14:32:39 GMT 1
Thoughts after 3 games with my father we used white go stones and a bowl to keep track of the tatics wheel, and 4 decks of playing cards for the card deck (Clubs= red diamonds=yellow, hearts=blue spades=wild). I printed out on cardstock the 2 ability hands. 1. The tactics wheel makes blue color matching extremely binary. it either is completely insane (effectively double damage) or worthless. 2/of note when Y and Z are blue and number of stones in tactics wheel is 1 or 2 you have a large edge. 3. If matching with blue would result in situation 2 above one should intentionally not color match. If there are 2 tactics wheel cards color matching is optimal as it turns a bad situation into a neutral one 4. The other situation is where both parties would win the stone when color matching with blue, this is a pretty janky position which results in a lot of guard vs guard. The game also takes a lot longer to play now, moving to x and y and doing stones is pretty slow In the super old version a game of razorbeast vs sentinel was over in less than 20 minutes, now many games take 30-40 minutes due to all the mechanical actions we have to take. I originally responded in Discord chat, but I may as well respond here instead, since I have more access to it during the day. My expectation is that this mechanic would have only a small impact and not derail the other aspects of the game. I expected points 2 and 3 to some extent, although point 1 sounds too extreme. Are you sure that you two aren't over-valuing the new mechanic? I wouldn't think that a chance to win 1 stone over the course of 2-4 turns would be game-defining.
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Post by captain on Sept 12, 2019 0:06:34 GMT 1
Thoughts after 3 games with my father we used white go stones and a bowl to keep track of the tatics wheel, and 4 decks of playing cards for the card deck (Clubs= red diamonds=yellow, hearts=blue spades=wild). I printed out on cardstock the 2 ability hands. 1. The tactics wheel makes blue color matching extremely binary. it either is completely insane (effectively double damage) or worthless. 2/of note when Y and Z are blue and number of stones in tactics wheel is 1 or 2 you have a large edge. 3. If matching with blue would result in situation 2 above one should intentionally not color match. If there are 2 tactics wheel cards color matching is optimal as it turns a bad situation into a neutral one 4. The other situation is where both parties would win the stone when color matching with blue, this is a pretty janky position which results in a lot of guard vs guard. The game also takes a lot longer to play now, moving to x and y and doing stones is pretty slow In the super old version a game of razorbeast vs sentinel was over in less than 20 minutes, now many games take 30-40 minutes due to all the mechanical actions we have to take. I originally responded in Discord chat, but I may as well respond here instead, since I have more access to it during the day. My expectation is that this mechanic would have only a small impact and not derail the other aspects of the game. I expected points 2 and 3 to some extent, although point 1 sounds too extreme. Are you sure that you two aren't over-valuing the new mechanic? I wouldn't think that a chance to win 1 stone over the course of 2-4 turns would be game-defining. Here's what I meant by point 1. There are to a first approximation 3 situations 1. Both can score the stone 2. Only 1 can score the stone 3. Both Can't score the stone Color matching is useless in situation 3. The only value in color matching with blues in situation 3 is to get to situation 2. Being in situation 2 is worth 1/3rd-1/2 of a damage. (my father says 1/3rd but the way you have to play as the disadvantaged player is pretty silly so I think in practice it's 1/2). In situation 1 color matching means everything as you get the double damage effect In situation 2 one player can score the double damage effect while the other cannot. After losing to my father 2 games in a row I switched to his valuation metric of tactics being worth approximately 0
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