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Post by snoc on Oct 30, 2016 21:28:46 GMT 1
Who's up for a fun new tournament idea?
Signups will run until 00:00 GMT on Monday 14th November with initial bracket being generated 12 hours later at 12:00 noon GMT Monday 14th November. You will have a week to play your matches, with the deadline being every Sunday at midnight, and conversations sent out by Monday at noon. Rules: - All players must only play Quince.
- Double elimination.
- Best of 7/first to 4.
- Medium timer.
- Rules enforced.
- Double KO is a win for neither side and must be replayed.
- Priority rules are as in the physical game (but not enforced in the client). The lower life player has priority, and may play abilities, or demand that the opponent plays abilities, first. This is likely to be relevant when both players have Positive Spin or Patriot Mirror available. Make sure to be clear via chat with your opponent before combat cards are played in this scenario!
- Playing ahead is allowed and encouraged, but be sure to include TOs in any scheduling conversations.
- Scheduling conflicts will be adjudicated by the TOs.
- Be a good sport and have fun!
Signups:
- snoc
- FraaOrolo
- Bomber678
- Zqxx
- Jonny D
- flagrantangles
- ExSeth
- thehug0naut
- Kraetyz
- Southpaw Hare
- mysticjuicer
Bracket: challonge.com/scsquince
Also, I would appreciate an Upstanding Community Member volunteering to co-TO with me for transparency in scheduling and adjudicating matches involving myself. mysticjuicer will co-TO
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Post by FraaOrolo on Oct 30, 2016 21:51:50 GMT 1
hmm, why not, what's the worst that could happen? Perhaps this is a good reminder that I talked about running single character one day tournaments a while back. I'll just have to make sure not to overlap with you.
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Post by Bomber678 on Oct 30, 2016 22:15:38 GMT 1
Sign me the fuck up
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Post by Zqxx on Oct 30, 2016 23:22:11 GMT 1
>tried mono quince in 19xx >got bodied >...
Sign me up anyways!
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Post by "Jonny D" Jonny "Jonny D" D on Oct 31, 2016 1:29:29 GMT 1
ya
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Post by flagrantangles on Oct 31, 2016 12:33:27 GMT 1
Meeeeeeeeeeeeee! I like Quince's mirrors in Codex and I don't know why I wouldn't love them in Yomi. Also, I'm so glad that someone else is running a tournament. I was hoping this would happen. Good show, snoc!
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Post by ExSeth on Oct 31, 2016 13:03:18 GMT 1
Sign me up, please~
Quince seems like the thematically correct character to kick off a mirror-match tournament series, and this also seems like a great way to learn more about the character.
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Post by thehug0naut on Nov 1, 2016 0:17:22 GMT 1
I. Love. This. Idea.
We finally get to see who is the best at DRAWZO: LEGEND OF THE CARD GETTERS!
I don't have a Quince but sign me the hell up!
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Post by Kraetyz on Nov 1, 2016 16:06:41 GMT 1
I'm in.
Yomi is the Japanese word for playing mono Quince.
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Post by Southpaw Hare on Nov 2, 2016 17:26:39 GMT 1
In
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Post by snoc on Nov 12, 2016 19:28:43 GMT 1
Bump, signups close in about 30 hours from this post!
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Post by mysticjuicer on Nov 12, 2016 20:25:24 GMT 1
put me in
though is there any chance we can get it in first to 3 instead of 4?
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Post by mysticjuicer on Nov 12, 2016 20:26:34 GMT 1
i'm also up for co-TOing
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Post by snoc on Nov 13, 2016 14:03:57 GMT 1
Thanks for the co-TO. I went with FT4 because idk mirrors seem to need more time to find a winner? But if it's a major thing then I'm happy to change it. Other opinions welcome!
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Post by snoc on Nov 14, 2016 14:23:18 GMT 1
Bracket is up and edited into main post, scheduling conversations are out (only an hour late, oops). @kraetyz, Zqxx and Bomber678 all have byes in the first round, thanks to skilful influencing of the Challonge RNG. Get scheduling and playing! Announcing games here, streaming and recording is, as always, strongly encouraged.
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Post by Kraetyz on Nov 14, 2016 14:30:19 GMT 1
Kraetyz 4 - 0 First Round Quince 1-0 Did not pick character Quince 2-0 Did not pick character Quince 3-0 Did not pick character Quince 4-0 Did not pick character
Overall, this went way better than I expected. I was nervous initially, but after First Round didn't pick a character and forfeited all four rounds, I felt way better about my position. Quick games, gg wp better luck next time.
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Post by Southpaw Hare on Nov 14, 2016 19:08:18 GMT 1
snoc So, Sirus question... Doesn't the Quince mirror match have a significant timing issue? If I recall, if both players use the Patriot Mirror effect at the same time, one of the players (Player 2 I think?) based on "controller port" has advantage of picking last and thus unfairly dominating the situation. Arguably, a similar situation happens with double Spin, as you end up in situations where one person wants to spin only if the other person doesn't etc. We probably want to manually enforce the actual timing rules from the official physical version of Yomi - i.e. the player with the lower life total has the advantage. Lower life guy can demand that the higher life guy must spin first or pick Patriot Mirror cards first, so that they can then make their move and win. It'd be a bit of a pain to track manually, but I think it'll be worth it in the end. These situations ARE going to come up, like guaranteed, and people are not going to be happy with the default results as-programmed.
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Post by snoc on Nov 14, 2016 20:07:22 GMT 1
Hmm, yes, I hadn't thought about that at all, since Quince mirrors (ironically) aren't that common (especially when I'm playing). I agree that the rule should match the physical version - the lower life player has the advantage. I'll edit that into the main post. I think the client always enforces "player 2 picks first"? Players should negotiate via chat when this situation comes up. Thanks for bringing that up before it was a problem!
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Post by Southpaw Hare on Nov 14, 2016 20:47:27 GMT 1
Hmm, yes, I hadn't thought about that at all, since Quince mirrors (ironically) aren't that common (especially when I'm playing). I agree that the rule should match the physical version - the lower life player has the advantage. I'll edit that into the main post. I think the client always enforces "player 2 picks first"? Players should negotiate via chat when this situation comes up. Thanks for bringing that up before it was a problem! No problem. I'd make a post within all the round 1 conversations bringing attention to this rule so that everyone is aware of it before it's too late. You should make it clear that this is relevant any time you have both players using Patriot Mirror, both players using Spin, or one of each. In either case, the lower life player can demand that the higher life player choose first. If life is tied, they'll need to flip a coin, and whoever wins gets to be the lower-life player and have the other person pick first.
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Post by flagrantangles on Nov 14, 2016 21:11:33 GMT 1
I could be wrong about this, but I believe that this had been corrected since the last time I brought up this issue. But, even if it has been, it's still good to know about the timing. Also, I'm not certain how flipping a coin online is going to work.
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Post by Southpaw Hare on Nov 14, 2016 22:58:39 GMT 1
I could be wrong about this, but I believe that this had been corrected since the last time I brought up this issue. But, even if it has been, it's still good to know about the timing. Also, I'm not certain how flipping a coin online is going to work. Can we have a couple people Go To The Lab and test this to confirm?
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Post by ExSeth on Nov 14, 2016 23:09:37 GMT 1
I can boot up Yomi right now and check if priority is enforced if anyone else is currently available. I didn't see mention of it in my quick perusal of the Steam patch notes, except for one note about Gloria now having the option of passing/reacting with Overdose, but that's not necessarily a confirmation one way or the other.
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Post by Southpaw Hare on Nov 14, 2016 23:38:13 GMT 1
I can boot up Yomi right now and check if priority is enforced if anyone else is currently available. I didn't see mention of it in my quick perusal of the Steam patch notes, except for one note about Gloria now having the option of passing/reacting with Overdose, but that's not necessarily a confirmation one way or the other. snocI just confirmed with @thelo that the fix was never made. It will have to be dealt with manually. People may want to pause if this becomes too taxing on the timer (since your opponent will be making a decision on your timer)
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Post by snoc on Nov 14, 2016 23:45:48 GMT 1
Yeah, pause away. Alternatively, just try to avoid clashing Patriot Mirrors if this is too much of a headache, lol
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Post by ExSeth on Nov 15, 2016 0:15:01 GMT 1
Pausing to quickly confirm priority sounds like something we should all be able to handle. I kind of think the additional layer of depth is kind of neat. Might lead to some memorable moments.
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Post by mysticjuicer on Nov 15, 2016 1:47:19 GMT 1
snoc Arguably, a similar situation happens with double Spin, as you end up in situations where one person wants to spin only if the other person doesn't etc. This won't happen because if you pass your opportunity to spin, and then your opponent spins, you get another chance to spin. There's no state where both players want to act first.
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Post by ExSeth on Nov 15, 2016 16:43:04 GMT 1
For anyone interested, a mere 24 hours from now, I'll be making my Tournament Career Debut in what promises to be a heated match against FraaOrolo . With any luck, I'll hold up slightly better than Kraetyz's first victim. In any case, I, for one, welcome anyone who wants to come watch and officiate or heckle or provide color commentary for this momentous (to me) event.
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Post by snoc on Nov 16, 2016 0:23:08 GMT 1
snoc beats thehug0naut 4-3! Was a very exciting back and forth, with an even mix of dominant games to either side and nailbiting finishes. Didn't take long before a priority issue, but we got through it and only had to deal with it once. Great fun games, and I hope that the rest of the tournament is this exciting! Video: www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OT-Ui26Fpg&feature=youtu.be
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Post by ExSeth on Nov 16, 2016 18:51:35 GMT 1
ExSeth wins 4-2 over FraaOrolo Fraa won matches 1 and 2, and I managed to run back the next four. The first match was largely me building Mr. the FraaOrolo's hand while trying to get an early lead, and then just drowning in the whirlpool. Game 2 was a bit closer in the mid-late game, and looked like it might've gone either way, but FraaOrolo got the better of the late game scramble and scooped my dodge for the win. Game 3 saw me filling up my hand with Two Truths in order to play a series of beefy combos that dealt tons of damage over a short series of three unlucky combat losses on FraaOrolo's part. I believe I dealt 78 damage over the course of 3 turns, so it was kind of an explosive end, but it game me the confidence to go into game 4. Game 4 had an early Attack Clash, but Fraa didn't have a face card to reveal, so priority wouldn't make itself known until later. Other than that, it was a pretty tough back-and-forth game, FraaOrolo pulled ahead early, but I rocketed back into the life lead by going pretty low on hand off of a Patriot Mirror followup combo. After that, I got off a good series of King bluffs, until I finally played the honest king and got bopped pretty hard, which let FraaOrolo run a nice spin cycle back towards an pretty close finish, but I got in a hit when FraaOrolo was at 9 health, revealed King as my spin card, then TWo Truths a Jack back to hand, representing a pretty solid mixup turn, and FraaOrolo unfortunately guessed wrong, trying to dodge a Crosswise Toss which ended the game, tying things up 2-2. Game 5 started with FraaOrolo Acing my turn 1 throw, which was a pretty good start. His Patriot Mirror follow up was a 5 attack and 6 attack, the dreaded "Unblockable." Unfortunately, I stuck out a 3 attack and poked him out of it, likely saving me from a hefty combo. A couple turns later, I demonstrated an "Unblockable" of my own following a blocked Patriot Mirror, flipping a Throw and a Joker. I had the second Joker in my hand, so I didn't feel too bad about burning one of them just to back up a throw. We scuffled back and forth for a few turns, and I 3-poked another crossup attempt on my knockdown, before flipping Two 2's off of Two Truths. I landed a raw Righteous Zeal combo against a naked throw a few turns later, and Fraa returned with a frightening series of Spin Wins that brought us both to pretty low life. Fraa dodged a J to put me at 9 life, but a strong Patriot Mirror let me sneak another Q attack into another throw and close out the game, letting me pull ahead into match point. My opening hand in Game 6 was 4, 6, Q, K, K, A, A. Turn 1: I jam an Ace into an 8 throw, Knockdown, Mirror. Turn 2: Return of the Unblockables, I flip a 3 and a 6 against a 9 block. Crossup 6 draws a Jack and I combo into it. Reveal a King. Next turn I play the Queen as an Attack, and it gets blocked. I reveal the King again. This time I play the second ace, punching through a throw, but choosing Positive Spin over Patriot Mirror this time, as I only have 5 cards in hand. Reveal that King again. I've drawn another ace by this point, so I figure I should probably play it, and successfully punch out another throw. Revealing that King seems to be working pretty good so far, so I do it again. Draw and immediately play 2 truths, which ultimately gets a Jack and Queen into my hand. We trade Jacks that turn, which brings ~Priority~ into effect. I reveal a K, FraaOrolo reveals a Jack. We both play the revealed card offense side up, and I choose to spin my throw away from the attack, after which he spins the attack away from the dodge, so we ulitmately both draw a card and dodge each other, removing the SpinFactor. After that, FraaOrolo stuffs a throw attempt with a 5 attack, comboing into full 3-card Consent of The governed, which kind of smarts. After combat, he discards Four 4's, picking up his 3 aces from discard. At this point, I'm at 46 life and he's at 33, but I don't have Consents of the Governed in hand, so I'm actually feeling a little scared. Unfortunately, FraaOrolo doesn't seem to have any face cards to spin, and I draw a Two Truths, which refills my options and defuses the situation a bit. Consent of the Govern immediately hits the table again, this time completely raw, but I was pretty spooked so I blocked it. No Positive Spin off of the chip damage, so we're still in neutral, where, having seen those two aces hit the discard, I find the courage to grab a block, and combo into a pumped Righteous Tumbler to put FraaOrolo down to 9 hp. I reveal the deadly K, and FraaOrolo responds by taxing BOTH dodge and Throw in the draw step. I know, of course, that landing the Crosswise Toss is leththal, so I choose to play it anyway, and I get scooped by an 8 throw into a 19 damage combo. FraaOrolo reveals a Jack, and I decide to return the favor by taxing Attack and Dodge, and laying down a sneaky Jack of my own. FraaOrolo doesn't play into the taxes, though, revealing a Throw, and Attack beats Throw to end the match. Excellent games overall. Had some fun, memorable moments, interesting choices and interactions, and I walked away feeling like I'd learned something. I have a feeling things are just starting to heat up here in the Single Character Showdown, though, and I'm looking forward to seeing where things go from here.
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Post by Southpaw Hare on Nov 16, 2016 21:16:38 GMT 1
snoc Hmm. Now that I think about it, I think the priority rules should never come up - though they still must exist! The threat of the rules coming up is enough, right? Considering only the double Patriot Mirror situation (as mysticjuicer points out, normal priority works fine for Spin), the player who has the higher life, knowing that they'd be disadvantaged, should always just choose not to use Patriot Mirror in the first place, right? It becomes more a matter of the higher life person not even using it as opposed to choosing second next combat and then losing it. I think it's always optimal for the life lead player to pass on Patriot Mirror in this case, so long as the rule is in place. Can anyone confirm? Edit: Hmm, no... there are still cases where the player who chooses second could still win. There's the Unbeatable Throw/Joker situation, or other rare edge-cases I guess. Still, it is rare I think.
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